Places I Remember with Lea Lane
Places I Remember with Lea Lane
Globetrotting With 'The World's Most Traveled Man'
What does it take to be 'the world's most traveled man'? Our guest, Harry Mitsidis, founder of NomadMania, reveals how he has visited all 193 sovereign countries as recognized by the United Nations -- many, more than once. Harry paints a vivid picture of his travels, sharing not just the stamp-laden passport but the interactions, deep cultural immersions, and customs that have shaped his journey. His insights and strategies for extensive traveling are lessons for both the novice and seasoned traveler.
We discuss favorite and least favorite countries, beauty and unique customs, dangerous situations and lessons learned. And Harry’s closing memory about how a simple act of giving a dollar led to an outpouring of gratitude in a local village will leave you contemplating the value of small gestures.
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Harry Mitsidis (harry.mitsidis@gmail.com is one of maybe 400 people out of billions, who has traveled to all the countries on earth. He has visited almost all regions globally and is one of three people in the world to have visited every single country twice!
Harry has been featured in the Sydney Morning Herald, Washington Post, and Stuff as the world’s most traveled man, and he can speak 10 languages.
A postgraduate of Oxford, he has written two books and is founder of NomadMania.
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Podcast host Lea Lane has traveled to over 100 countries, and has written nine books, including the award-winning Places I Remember (Kirkus Reviews star rating, and 'one of the top 100 Indie books of the year'). She has contributed to many guidebooks and has written thousands of travel articles.
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Our award-winning travel podcast, Places I Remember with Lea Lane, has produced over 100 travel episodes! New podcast episodes drop on the first Tuesday of the month, on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you listen. Check them out.
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"I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list. That's a famous quote from author Susan Sontag, which I've used for myself. Our guest, Harry Mitsidis, has been eveywhere. He's founder of Nomad Mania an online hub for independent travelers, offering tracking and planning tools for travel adventures. Harry is one of a very exclusive group of maybe a hundred people in the world who visited all of the 193 sovereign countries, according to the United Nations, and he's visited many of them twice or more. He's known by many as the world's most traveled man. Welcome, Harry, to Places I Remember.
Harry Mitsidis:Hello Lea Thanks very much for having me.
Lea Lane:Well, it's great to have you. I have so many questions. As a fellow frequent traveler who's been to a mere 100 countries or so, about half of where you've been. I have so many questions, so let's start First. where did you grow up, and when you were growing up did you travel much?
Harry Mitsidis:So I was born in London but I grew up in Greece, in Athens, and, yes, we did used to travel quite a lot as a family because my mom's English, South African English, so we would go to England, we went to South Africa. We also have relatives in the States. I was a reasonably well-traveled child and young man, especially back then in the early 80s when people didn't travel all that much.
Lea Lane:So when did you realize that you wanted to achieve this extreme travel goal?
Harry Mitsidis:Well, I think it was a gradual process. It's not something that you just decide on from one day to another. I think I just was curious about the world. I was intrigued by some countries that no one would really want to go to. I was lucky enough to go to Vietnam when I was 24, in 1996 for a summer project, and Vietnam back then was just opening up to the world and that really changed my perspective on travel on the world. And then I wanted more and more. But I guess toward my early 20s I thought the idea of having a normal quote, unquote life and 9 to 5 or anything like that was really not me, and then eventually the travel bug just took over.
Lea Lane:It sure did. How did you manage to accomplish it? How were you able to work or to afford traveling the world?
Harry Mitsidis:I was teaching, so I studied business and sociology and then I got into lecturing in leadership and management, and the good thing with teaching is you get good holidays, lots of time off. So I would use every opportunity I had back then to go somewhere and gradually I had about 100, 120 countries without even trying that much. And then I was like, well, now I really have to do them all. I think it was a combination of making sure that the finances were well allocated, combining countries well so that I could do a number of them on one trip and, of course, sacrificing other things that quote unquote. Normal people may see as obvious, but I was never really into technical gadgets and things like that. I still have the same car after 20 years, but things like that yeah.
Lea Lane:Yeah, in terms of family, were you able to do solo travel or how did that work?
Harry Mitsidis:I'm a solo traveler by nature. I'm an only child and I think when you are an only child you learn to be independent and you learn to like to do things on your own. So often I choose to travel alone, even though I am married and even though I could travel with loads of friends as well. But I do think that for me, the experience of traveling alone is the one where I truly explore and discover the culture of the place, where I get to have these unique meetings with locals. Once you with someone from back home, I think that that experience is diluted quite a lot.
Lea Lane:I agree with you, like I wrote a book called Solo Traveler. So many times when you're traveling with someone you know you're not looking around, you're talking about the stock market or something and you don't, you lose it. Yeah, now, do you stay a while in most of these countries, or do you try to stay longer than just to put your foot down and run out? Because I know people who do that.
Harry Mitsidis:Oh I know? many people who do that. To be very honest, in the previous incarnation, back when I was taking off the countries and trying to do them all, I think I'm guilty of having done that on a number of occasions. Well, now I don't, but back then, let's say, you know, in many of the African countries, back in the day, I would only visit the capital and then say, okay, I've done it, I'm on to the next one. But you know, once I finished every country, I think that is when I realize that you need to explore countries much deeper. You know and understand the regional differences. I don't think the first time around I had really understood how varied African countries are. Differences are. This is something that I gradually came to realize by going there more. So, nowadays I do travel much slower. I've now been in Japan for ten days and I'm going to be here for another month. I think it's like a six week Japan trip, which is something that twenty years ago I would probably never think of, but now it's wonderful.
Harry Mitsidis:Well, you've done the one ninety three; well it's one ninety three, according to the United Nations.
Lea Lane:Yes, yeah, so you don't have to rush, you can enjoy them from now on. Yeah, when you go there, do you eat local foods? You live in local places. What's your way of living?
Harry Mitsidis:I think I'm. I'm sort of a mixture between the adventurer and the cautious, so I'm not gonna do things which could be dangerous. I'm not going to buy street food in places where that could cause a lot of problems, for example, but yes, I am gonna go local.
Harry Mitsidis:I've been eating exclusively Japanese food the past ten days so do I yeah, well, in Japan that's really right because the food is so amazing and so very. But I mean, even in countries which may not be famous for that, I do try to go local. The one where I really give up is India. I cannot handle spicy food and in India I just I just focus on the dessert because they're great and milky and you know they have all these sort of creamy, milky things. But I cannot take the spices of the food s. So usually I go hungry there. And in terms of accommodation, again, it varies a lot. I think one of the things about travel is not to have a rule. You know to kind of do what you feel like. So sometimes I may stay at a five star hotel, sometimes I'm gonna go to a hostel, sometimes I'm gonna go to an air bnb and obviously quite a number of times I may stay with friends or acquaintances.
Lea Lane:Ot t traveled the world. you have , I'm sure, a group of you that connects all the time and talks about some of the wonderful things of the world. Is that correct?
Harry Mitsidis:Again. when I did the first time around back then, I was very much alone and, of course, the internet was also not that developed back then. Yeah, it was, it was very solo thing. But nowadays, yeah, we are a community and obviously I have founded a community called No ad Mania, and there is a core of people and we kind of always communicate. We tend to meet in the most obscure places sometimes and even bump into each other, which is crazy. I bumped into someone on the plane to Tu valu, , which is one of the least visited and least known countries in the Pacific, There we were boarding and like , you're here as well. We ended up spending, our time together, which was great. But yeah, yeah, that's a good thing of being part of these extreme travel communities
Lea Lane:Wh at y extreme travelers have in common.
Harry Mitsidis:I think it's the curiosity to to see and experience more. It's probably some form of restlessness, the inability to stay put for very long, and that's probably where it ends, because in terms of demographics, we're extremely different. You get all shapes and sizes, ages, and I like that. It's a very democratic thing in a way. The one thing which I wish is that there were more people from less known countries. You know, many of us tend to be from the more obvious European, North America and Australia. You know that background, but gradually we getting more Asians in the community and a few Africans as well. So that's really nice to see l community of people are really really committed to traveling and experiencing and understanding the differences between countries that others have never (Right, Is it men and women both equal, not so equal.
Harry Mitsidis:Not, so sadly. i There i many women. There are, but it is more men. I think in this people sometimes think tha what what we do is very qualitative, that it's more, you know, quantitative. I disagree with that, but I think that is a bit of the impression and I think women maybe more don't travel, don't for long, a longer time, to a specific destination, rather than hopping about that much. So in what we do, yes, there are more men, but we are trying to change that.
Lea Lane:Have you taken any cruises? Is this a way of seeing any of the places?
Harry Mitsidis:Not as many as you would think I would like and I don't think I've taken many cruises, cruise in the sort of classical sense. I've taken a few expedition. You can call them cruises, but they're more like expeditions, meaning that they're difficult trips. I mean, the boat is comfortable enough, you get some service, but it's not the sort of opulent place where where you go to have fun. So if you're going, for example, to the Arctic, you know, to the islands above Russia, or you're going to Antarctica, those are demanding trips which where you know you need to be both physically strong and often the voyage itself is quite tough. I've taken only a couple of fun cruises, you know, like the classic Caribbean thing I took. ( I can't see you on that o
Harry Mitsidis:You've got, you've got to try everything. What?
Lea Lane:Let's talk about a few of your favorite countries, and why. Give us a few?
Harry Mitsidis:it's difficult to choose one. If you ask me which country should you visit, I always say North c, not because it's my favorite, but because it's definitely the most bizarre outlandish, totally different experience, where you often feel everything is staged around you, a little bit like that movie with Jim Carrey you never know what's real and what isn't. So in terms of my real favorite, I'll admit that I'm attracted to the countries not the most obvious. So it's not gonna be, you know, Spain, although I really do like Spain, but you know it's not gonna be the one I'm gonna mention. Some of the African countries are surprising. Rwanda.
Lea Lane:I was just there, I was just a mountain gorillas. Yes, did you go up to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it?
Harry Mitsidis:Delightful, absolutely wonderful yeah, Rwanda, I also think, is a very optimistic example of a country that had a terrible tragedy happened to it and somehow has managed to bounce back, and I think that that positive message is also a very nice thing to see. Also love .
Harry Mitsidis:Yes, it's beautiful and I believe I was really great and I would say even in West Africa, which is much more challenging for the traveler, you have places like Benin, not very well known, but a lot of history, culture. You've got what is called the Venice of Africa. It's a sort of small village which is made on still and you can go and kind of gondolas around it and then you've got a lot of place sites which give you a bit of the history of the place. These kind of countries where the culture is authentic, definitely mean more to me. I'm in Japan now. I mean it's impossible not to mention.
Harry Mitsidis:Japan is a favorite. It's so different, the people are so courteous and yet it's exotic at every step. But at the same time it's a very easy country to travel and you never need to watch your back. You know that it's safe. You could leave money lying somewhere and you're gonna find it after a day. You know no one will touch it. So these things make Japan very nice and I also like Iran a lot. You know, for Americans synonymous with the devil, I suppose.
Lea Lane:But I heard that are so friendly. I've been told that so many times believable, unbelievable.
Harry Mitsidis:It's a real example where you need to separate the people from politics, because the people in Iran are truly r unbelievably hospitable. They will never let you go hungry, they'll invite you to their homes. And then, of course, the history, the culture. I remember being in Persepolis P and being half Greek myself. You know, in Persepolis you still Still see the burn marks on what is left of that ancient town. I could really feel the history. And Alexander the great was, you know, burned it down. So I don't know, I think Iran really, really makes for a great trip if you can forget the political angle.
Lea Lane:Right. How about some of the least favorite countries? Is there anywhere where you really just did not care for the country for whatever reason?
Harry Mitsidis:I have never had a really bad experience. I mean, there's some countries where I feel that you are more likely to be ripped off because it's just the culture. Countries are poor and then people go there maybe popular places like Morocco or Tunisia but I don't think it's. I wouldn't say I don't like them, I just think I'm less them because of the idea that they are more popular and when you go there, the locals you a little bit like a bank, but at the same time I understand them. They live in very difficult conditions without many job opportunities, so you know it's obvious that they're going to try to find their way through you.
Harry Mitsidis:For me, everywhere is interesting. Even the bad is good in the sense that you can learn about yourself, how you deal with the difficulties, and I think that's the point of travel to learn about your limits, to learn about what you can handle and what you can't. So it's definitely educational and there's no country where I really wouldn't go again. I often mentioned Gambia as an example of a country that thought of didn't really resonate with me, but again, maybe, maybe I need to give it another chance.
Lea Lane:I'll wait on that one How? bout beauty? What would you say, d? Which parts of the world?
Harry Mitsidis:Well, that's a difficult question because beauty comes in many, many different forms. I mean, you've got many beautiful towns or villages where you marvel at the architecture and, for example, I really like Central European small towns, places like Czech Republic, Hungary, that kind of architecture that is beautiful, and because I grew up in Athens, which isn't really known for its beauty as a city, that is something that always attracts me. Then, of course, you've got natural beauty, and that again comes in many different shapes. You can have an amazing beach. I don't know if you've been to Ma ritious.
Harry Mitsidis:Have you been to Rodriguez island? No, which are well, that's an hour and a half l away. It's still part of the country and Rodriguez island has one of the most beautiful beaches I've ever seen. So that is stunning, can just sit and look at it. I would say mountains, there are some mountains in northern Pakistan and at the end of that you have the k2 places like the Hundza o valley. Those are stunningly beautiful. You have these rugged mountains and then lakes within Tajikistan. I mean all that mountain range sort of around the Himalayas. It's really beautiful to travel in. So those are some places which, to me, you know, I would gladly go there again wonderful.
Lea Lane:How about customs? Are there any customs that you remember off the top of your head? That struck you as the most strange or the most interesting a festival, perhaps that you were a part of?
Harry Mitsidis:Well, you know the world is. The world is truly strange. You know, there's a never ending array of bizarre things one can witness everywhere. Let me think of the top of my head. Well, here in Japan, I've witnessed so many weird things in the last few days.
Harry Mitsidis:Yesterday I went for a meal of crab. I finished the meal and I thought that was that I was ready to go, but then they said no, no, no, sit. And then the woman came and, in sort of broth that had remained from the crab, he took out everything that was in there and then added rice in and recooked it. And I was looking in amazement. You know what's going on here and because you can never really understand or talk with them, you just look in amazement and wonder what's next. And before I knew it, there was a sort of post meal course of rice with a bit of seasoning, and I just couldn't think of what is the function of this course. Now I'm already full. I've had all this crab, which was great, and now you're giving me rice, which is very tasty, but but why so? I mean, something as simple as that can be really, really bizarre. Of course, there's all sorts of other examples that could come up of course.
Lea Lane:Of course we've. We've done some episodes on on interesting customs and it's. It's a fascinating what goes on in the world, and many people travel with that in mind. They go for a festival and many people don't realize is a festival and miss it. So I think it's something to consider when you're traveling the world what the festivals are not to miss them (absolutely, absolutely.
Harry Mitsidis:Within our community, many people, you know, love the festivals, as the ones in Papua New Guinea, which are very popular also. Until this year, the Gerrelwald festival in Niger. It had become popular, but now, with a new political situation there, I don't know what's going to happen. And then, of course, you've got in Latin America. You've got all these festivals which are often. You have masks and things like that. Yeah, yeah, it's great.
Lea Lane:I think that that is one of the best things about travel the festivals and the are festivals actually in America or wherever you live, in your hometowns or nearby, if you, if you check it out. I mentioned the duct tape festival that I went to a few years ago. It was, everything was made of duct tape. You know the floats, the clothing, you know.
Harry Mitsidis:Interesting, right well, what I love about America is that there's all these weird things. You know it, especially if you go sort of off the beaten track into the states that some people would not necessarily travel to. You know, and you'll end up with like the world's biggest potato or something, and absolutely, really hilarious, I love that.
Lea Lane:We're very good at that. We're very good at that, but you travel to some dangerous destinations such as Somalia, Libya, Syria, you mentioned North Korea, Ukraine now, unfortunately, Afghanistan. What are some scary situations you've been in? Let's choose one. Is this something where you really were lucky to get out?
Harry Mitsidis:I found myself in a jail cell in Yemen. That was not good, no, no. And luckily I wasn't alone. So at the time I was teaching in neighboring o man. I had this strange idea that going to Yemen was a good thing. And then the student o volunteered to take me. So luckily at least I had an interpreter and I got jailed with my student who a think you know it was in total shock. It wasn't fun. There were cockroaches, mosquitos. We didn't really know what they wanted. In the end what they wanted was the obvious. So the next morning the obvious was settled in a relatively amicable way and we ended up having a big meal to celebrate that in in the sort of area of prison. It makes for a good story, but really scary. I don't think I can express how scary it is to feel so vulnerable and not to know what may happen to you. You know, and at those moments you just think of the people you love.
Lea Lane:It's funny how that is a natural instinct that's pretty strong, I would say I and I assume it was money that they wanted to let's, let's.
Lea Lane:Yeah, yeah, luckily, luckily yeah you've been to, as I said, many obscure places. You've been to see keen and narrow and you've been to Pitcairn island, where I've been to. We couldn't get on it I was on a cruise and because the waves were so high, so the whole island came on the ship. Y bout 45 people that came on the ship and it was kind of interesting. I don't know what your experience was there, but it was different.
Harry Mitsidis:Well, I've been to Pitcairn twice, believe it so. So the first time it was out of French Polynesia on the sort of t yacht with another eight or I think we were about eight travelers and we had three days on Pitcairn. And because there's no hotel, they allocate you to a local and you pay them something and for them it's a form of much needed income. So that that was very interesting, because each one of us had a different experience depending on who we were allocated to. So I lucked out. I got a lady who had a very nice house and a lot of space, with a marvelous view, and she also told me all the ins and outs.
Lea Lane:Yes, we should mention about that. They're all related to captain Bly from Mutiny on the Bounty and other.
Harry Mitsidis:And she was actually a descendant, yes, Christian, from back then. Yeah, yeah, Pitcairn is well worth going to because it's the smallest inhabited territory anywhere. There's only 50 people living there and the ship only comes what three or four times a year.
Lea Lane:So exciting they've been w hen our ship came by. They were so excited to come on and have lunch and we met the whole island. It was just they all had the merch, so it was different. Well, travel is a means to develop emotional and social intelligence. What do you think are the social responsibilities of travelers like yourself? The purpose, besides racking up these experiences?
Harry Mitsidis:Oh, this is extremely important and this is something that we also focus on a lot in Nomad a Mania. So I totally believe, first of all, that as a traveler, you need to be an ambassador of your country, which means you must always be not only polite, but you must, in a way, represent your country. If you are you demanding m or mean, you know, intolerant, then the people you're visiting are going to think badly of the place you come from. So you know you are representing and that also means you need to know about your own country. So I always say read up on where you're coming from, because people will ask you questions and you need to know the answers.
Harry Mitsidis:I do think it's very important to travel with an open mind. I also support a lot the idea of trying, especially in difficult countries, to help local agents if possible. If you hear From other travelers that they're reliable, then use them directly, because these people really need these resources. So a hundred dollars may not be that much for you, but for them it can make an incredible difference. I really think that it's very important to read up a bit about the customs and the way of life before you go to a place.
Lea Lane:Absolutely. I just want to say when you retire if you ever do I don't think you're gonna retire to travel, but anyway you'll never retire, probably because you love this so much. But if you think you would settle in one place in the world besides your home, where would you settle in the world?
Harry Mitsidis:That is such a difficult question, nothing. For someone like me, the idea of settling would be very different than it would be to you or to anyone else. When people think of retiring or settling, it's like you find a place and you spend nearly your whole life there and build, build your life around that place. I can't really imagine myself doing that. But if I did have to choose, I really can't handle the cold weather I live in not too much and I like bright, bright skies. So I think at the end of the day, anywhere around the Mediterranean may suit me well (doesn't sound bad).
Lea Lane:Well, the name of the podcast is Places. I Remember. So, out of all your many, many memories from so many places, can you please share one really special memory to close out this extraordinary episode?
Harry Mitsidis:Yes, I remember once I was driving in Sierra Leone. Well, I wasn't doing the driving, but I was in a car. I was going from Freetown to Monrovia and it was a long overland journey.
Lea Lane:This is in Africa.
Harry Mitsidis:This is in Africa, and the journey involved a couple of barges to cross rivers, because they don't have bridges there.
Harry Mitsidis:And I remember, as we were waiting for one of the barges, there was a local village community and of course they don't get too many Caucasian people there, so they were all screaming, you know, and dancing and sort of playing around and I decided now I'm going to give these people a dollar, one dollar, and I gave them the dollar and I have never seen anything like it. You would have thought I gave them a million dollars. They all burst out and I mean there were about 20 people I don't know if they were one family or not and imagine them colorfully dressed, the women, in these sort of elaborate dresses. They didn't look poor, they look, you know, very, very nice, clean, and they burst out in dancing and thank you, and they were, you know, really going for it. And then when the barge came, I could still hear them, you know, elated, and I think that the lesson from that one dollar can really make such a big difference to some people. It's very important to remember these small lessons and that's a memory I have never forgotten.
Lea Lane:Well, a considered by many, i the world's most traveled man. May you have many, many more travels throughout the world and maybe a few staycations as well, and thank you so much for traveling to us for just a little while.
Harry Mitsidis:Thank you so much and happy travels to your remaining 90 countries.
Lea Lane:Thank you.
